Colorado CCW Training Warning

[O2HeN2]

I’m and NRA instructor and I’m one of a cadre of instructors that teach CCW here in the ‘springs. I think training is a great idea and heartily recommend it and as much of it as you can get.

That said, we’re talking about a RIGHT here. If you truly believe that the 2^nd amendment acknowledges a right and is not granting a privilege there is only one position you can legitimately take, and that’s there should be absolutely NO requirement or restrictions AT ALL to buy, carry or feed a firearm.

When people ask what restrictions I feel should be on firearms I have a simple reply: The same restrictions that are on buying a newspaper (note that that even implies no tax).

No matter how you justify it: “We want to appear ‘reasonable’”, “We don’t want just anyone to be able to buy one”, etc. you’ve treating the 2^nd as a privilege and no longer a right. You’re delaying or pricing the 2^nd into oblivion. That’s no different than the mealy-mouthed politicians that say that they support the 2^nd amendment, but they just want to ban Saturday night specials. Oh, and assault rifles. Oh, and street sweepers… And on and on and on. But they are true believers.

True believers in absolutely nothing, just like many on this board it appears.

O2

[Controlled-pair]

I am just setting up a training business (along with every other shooter out there). Part of my business plan is to provide proof of cred's to every student. As always..."Let the buyer beware".

[Frank Howell]

Great point about the poor Bailey. I'll be honest, I had never given that population much thought there. There may actually be a real need for training in that population. It really warrants some thought. I know in my personal courses, I offer a 10% discount to anyone who has served or to first responders, but I have not really concidered the plight of those who really need the education but it falls beyond their means.

OK, I will conceed that requirements for training should not be in the realm of the politicians. AT ALL.

That leaves it to those of us who are instructors in this field to be the responcible parties and be sure that we are teaching our students what the really need to know, instead of giving just the minimum that the law requires. People who are carrying concealed really need to know the laws governing use of force and all of the laws that they may come close to violating in their goal of personal protection, i.e. First Degree Kidnapping, Menacing, and wreakless endangerment just to name a few. This is one area that I have real heartburn with the NRA. According to them, the state laws are not to be instructed at all until an individual has passed their Basic Pistol, then their Advanced Pistol, and then their Personal Protection in the Home, and finally their Personal Protection Outside of the Home, and then, it must be taught by either a Lawyer, or LEO. You want to talk about a Barrier to your individual RIGHT?!? That screams barrier to me.

[Great-Kazoo]

Great point about the poor Bailey. I'll be honest, I had never given that population much thought there. There may actually be a real need for training in that population. It really warrants some thought. I know in my personal courses, I offer a 10% discount to anyone who has served or to first responders, but I have not really concidered the plight of those who really need the education but it falls beyond their means.

OK, I will conceed that requirements for training should not be in the realm of the politicians. AT ALL.

That leaves it to those of us who are instructors in this field to be the responcible parties and be sure that we are teaching our students what the really need to know, instead of giving just the minimum that the law requires. People who are carrying concealed really need to know the laws governing use of force and all of the laws that they may come close to violating in their goal of personal protection, i.e. First Degree Kidnapping, Menacing, and wreakless endangerment just to name a few. This is one area that I have real heartburn with the NRA. According to them, the state laws are not to be instructed at all until an individual has passed their Basic Pistol, then their Advanced Pistol, and then their Personal Protection in the Home, and finally their Personal Protection Outside of the Home, and then, it must be taught by either a Lawyer, or LEO. You want to talk about a Barrier to your individual RIGHT?!? That screams barrier to me.

The NRA doesn't insist/ require a person complete ALL handgun courses. ANY of the courses you listed is acceptable for CO CCW. An Attorney or LE is required to be the one during PP in or outside the home to discuss the legal side.
Exactly who is "That population"? seems condescending / elitist to me. Sounds like how we are described when one anti is talking to another you know "That Population". Not saying you are, just not seeing anyone as "that".
Myself, Se Habla Espanol, slowly but surely. The less than english fluent are an untapped source of students. Just because someone does not speak english, doesn't mean they have no desire to defend them self or their loved ones.

[argonstrom]

Great point about the poor Bailey. I'll be honest, I had never given that population much thought there. There may actually be a real need for training in that population. It really warrants some thought. I know in my personal courses, I offer a 10% discount to anyone who has served or to first responders, but I have not really concidered the plight of those who really need the education but it falls beyond their means.

OK, I will conceed that requirements for training should not be in the realm of the politicians. AT ALL.

That leaves it to those of us who are instructors in this field to be the responcible parties and be sure that we are teaching our students what the really need to know, instead of giving just the minimum that the law requires. People who are carrying concealed really need to know the laws governing use of force and all of the laws that they may come close to violating in their goal of personal protection, i.e. First Degree Kidnapping, Menacing, and wreakless endangerment just to name a few. This is one area that I have real heartburn with the NRA. According to them, the state laws are not to be instructed at all until an individual has passed their Basic Pistol, then their Advanced Pistol, and then their Personal Protection in the Home, and finally their Personal Protection Outside of the Home, and then, it must be taught by either a Lawyer, or LEO. You want to talk about a Barrier to your individual RIGHT?!? That screams barrier to me.

Just a quick question to get an idea on your perspective - about how old are you?

[Great-Kazoo]

Just a quick question to get an idea on your perspective - about how old are you?

Perhaps not old enough to have attended any grammar classes

[pizzulog]

Hello members,

Here is my question, I am a retired 100% Disabled US. Army Chief Warrant Officer, moved here in 2010 from Fort Bragg NC where I received my CCW. I know CO has retroprocity with NC, my CCW has not expired yet. What do I need to do to convert over to CO? is it better to do it know before it expires, can I still carry now that I am a CO resident or am I in violation.

Thanks

Guy

[Wulf202]

Violation. Go to your sheriffs office trade out your current Ccw for the colorado one it'll arrive in 89 days. Or get proof of training within the last 10 years and don't surrender your current one

[Bailey Guns]

Yeah...your NC permit is not good here once you become a resident. You should have proof of training from the Army that will satisfy CO requirements. Don't get caught carrying with a NC permit.

[Frank Howell]

The NRA doesn't insist/ require a person complete ALL handgun courses. ANY of the courses you listed is acceptable for CO CCW. An Attorney or LE is required to be the one during PP in or outside the home to discuss the legal side.
Exactly who is "That population"? seems condescending / elitist to me. Sounds like how we are described when one anti is talking to another you know "That Population". Not saying you are, just not seeing anyone as "that".
Myself, Se Habla Espanol, slowly but surely. The less than english fluent are an untapped source of students. Just because someone does not speak english, doesn't mean they have no desire to defend them self or their loved ones.

Jim,

"That Population" refered to an earlier post by Bailey in which he described mandated training as a barrier to a person's right to self defense especially for the poor who have very limited funds for this. To insist that they not only fess up the money for the permit and background check but also have to pay for training, was adding more barriers in their way. That gave me something to think about. As a firearms instructor who has spent a lot of time and money obtaining the teaching credintials that I have, I am well within my rights to ask for payment for my services. However, these services, when mandated by the law, can become a barrier to many of the people who need it the most. Elderly people, living on a fixed and limited income. Single parents who are trying to make ends meet in an economy that shows no mercy. I've actually been giving some serious thought to volunteering my time and expertise to teaching some of these people who need, but can't afford the training. I'm sorry if this makes me elitist in some way. That was not my intent. As for the Spanish speaking community, I'll have to leave that in your able hands. I have not said nor implied in any way shape or form that Spanish speaking Americans should not have training. As a matter of fact, the subject has never come up until now.

As for my comments about the NRA training, it was put to me from an NRA Training Counselor that these handgun classes had prerequises, and had to be taken in order. I was just speaking to what I had been told. Yes, I agree with you that any of the classes mentioned would meet the criteria for training required for a CHP, my point was that the only one that referances the State Laws governing use of force, is the last one. I believe that anyone who is preparing to carry a concealed weapon, NEEDS to know the Laws governing that weapons use. The State of CO puts that responcibility solely on the individual, and doesn't even tell them.

And, for the record, I'm 53, retired from the Colorado Air National Guard with 27 years of service, 12 of which were on Active Duty, and all but 4 of those 27 years, I spent teaching people how to defend themselves and others through the use of small arms.