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  1. #101
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    Default House to house Search .

    I'd answer the door all Tactical Fudd - "Hell yes you boys can come on in. I'll take point. Lets do this!!"

    But seriously I would let them in to clear the house for my own peace of mind. A few years ago I came home to a burglary. I went to my safe, got my weapon and cleared the house. I've been trained to clear houses in the military but still ok'd the police to do it when they arrived. Democracy didn't fall and the Constitution didn't burn any faster than it already is because of that decision.

  2. #102
    Fleeing Idaho to get IKEA Bailey Guns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wARmachine15 View Post
    I'd answer the door all Tactical Fudd - "Hell yes you boys can come on in. I'll take point. Lets do this!!"
    Best response I've seen yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by wARmachine15 View Post
    But seriously I would let them in to clear the house for my own peace of mind. A few years ago I came home to a burglary. I went to my safe, got my weapon and cleared the house. I've been trained to clear houses in the military but still ok'd the police to do it when they arrived. Democracy didn't fall and the Constitution didn't burn any faster than it already is because of that decision.
    Oh, yes it did. Didn't you hear? There was MARTIAL LAW in Boston.

    Stella - my best girl ever.
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  3. #103
    a cool, fancy title hollohas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey Guns View Post
    Exactly. What led them to focus on that particular house and occupants? I'm not willing to pass judgment until I have a lot more information than a video.
    That thought had crossed my mind too. They certainly put more effort into that house then most others I have seen in other videos. So maybe they did have a tip. However, if they did have a tip to that house which would explain the entry, then why didn't they detain the occupants? Letting the occupants walk down the street uncontrolled doesnt jive with the possiblity the house had the BG.

    And BTW, I'm not passing judgement either, that's way above my pay grade. I don't KNOW what happened there, but that doesn't keep me from asking questions for the sake of thoughtful discussion.
    Last edited by hollohas; 04-21-2013 at 21:01.

  4. #104
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    Rights that can be suspended are more commonly known as Priveleges.

  5. #105
    Zombie Slayer Aloha_Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollohas View Post
    That thought had crossed my mind too. They certainly put more effort into that house then most others I have seen in other videos. So maybe they did have a tip. However, if they did have a tip to that house which would explain the entry, then why didn't they detain the occupants? Letting the occupants walk down the street uncontrolled doesnt jive with the possiblity the house had the BG.
    You don't think it's possible they simply had a tip about the suspect hiding there and wanted to get the residents out and safe before any firefight began? They already knew what/who they were looking for so simple visual inspection would tell you they weren't him.

  6. #106
    a cool, fancy title hollohas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter View Post
    You don't think it's possible they simply had a tip about the suspect hiding there and wanted to get the residents out and safe before any firefight began? They already knew what/who they were looking for so simple visual inspection would tell you they weren't him.
    Yup, that's possible too. But that's no less of an assumption. I come from a long time LE family and have a lot of respect for the badge. But like I said before, there is nothing wrong with thought provoking discussion about the implications and possible issues with the way things were done in Boston. I am not, nor will I come to any conclusions on this topic. I am in no position to determine what was right or wrong, but that won't stop me from having questions. No process, no agency and no individual is perfect. Asking questions is what makes things better.

    Here's two little tidbits that have made me think:

    1) Neither the police, military, FBI or martial law found the BG. A private citizen did, right after the "shelter in place" demand was lifted.
    2) Many people are hesitant to use events they see on video's to question the tactics used in Boston. But don't forget, they used VIDEO to ID they suspects. If video is enough to accuse the bad guys, why isn't it is enough to merely question the tactics used by the good guys?
    Last edited by hollohas; 04-22-2013 at 14:41.

  7. #107
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    Everyone (I in my job) who works for the government (city, state, feds, military) should understand that they work for the people... The people are our bosses, supervisors etc.. I get questioned constantly and treated like fricking trash, I get paid to deal with it.. Too many times I see my peers and subordinates, my leaders and other city, state, feds, military treat the citizenry like ass and assume they are sheep.
    Last edited by Boadie30; 04-22-2013 at 08:47.

  8. #108
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    A couple of things-

    I have a serious issue with allowing armed men I do not know anywhere near my wife and family, especially under "heightened" circumstances. I would also be really pissed if I was told to remove myself from my house, with my hands on my head, treated like a perp for simply being in my home.

    Second, go get the warrant. Conduct a warrantless search based on the threat of arrest, detainment, or physical injury? Sure, go ahead. Hitler did.

    Also let me point out that lets argue for a minute that the terrorist had actually holed up in someones house, holding them hostage. So the cops come to the door, ask to search, get told no, and then what? They bust in and get the homeowners killed in a gunfight? Sounds exactly like police thinking.

  9. #109
    Zombie Slayer Aloha_Shooter's Avatar
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    Orin Kerr's statement on house-to-house searches from the Volokh Conspiracy (emphasis added by me):

    House-to-House Searches and the Fourth Amendment
    Orin Kerr • April 19, 2013 7:21 pm


    Current events in Boston raise the question of whether the Fourth Amendment allows the government to conduct house-to-house searches for an armed and dangerous suspect on the loose. Assume the police enter a home without consent searching for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev; does the entry violate the Fourth Amendment? The answer depends on whether such home entries are “reasonable” under the Fourth Amendment, which requires a case-by-case balancing of the government’s interest in making the searches and the scope of the privacy invasion. The constitutional question would seem to depend on whether the searches are reasonably limited in scope (such as limited to a specific geographic area), the dangerousness of the suspect (here, very high), and the strength of the government’s case that the suspect may be in the area and cannot be caught another way. Fortunately there aren’t a lot of cases on anything like we’re seeing in Boston, at least as far as I could find. The closest cases I know of involve roadblocks instead of home searches, which is in the ballpark of dragnet searches and seizures but not particularly close on the facts. See, e.g., City of Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32 (2000) (noting in dicta that “the Fourth Amendment would almost certainly permit an appropriately tailored roadblock set up to thwart an imminent terrorist attack or to catch a dangerous criminal who is likely to flee by way of a particular route.”); United States v. Paetsch, — F.Supp.2d —-, 2012 WL 5213011 (D.Colo. 2012) (dragnet roadblock at intersection to catch bank robber held reasonable under the Fourth Amendment).
    Note that caselaw on these sorts of facts are particularly unlikely for reasons beyond the fortunate rarity of their occurrence. The suspect won’t have Fourth Amendment standing to bring a suit or a motion to suppress to challenge a search of someone else’s house in which he was hiding. See Rakas v. Illinois, 439 U.S. 128 (1978). As a result, only the legitimate residents could bring such actions in a civil case. And if they did bring such suits, qualified immunity would bar recovery unless the violation was clearly established — which is unlikely here given the novelty of the facts.

  10. #110
    Machine Gunner muddywings's Avatar
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    I guess here is my concern. You got a mad bomber in the loose who has shot and killed a cop on top of his bombing deaths. I'm told to shelter in place. I'm sitting there with my gun on my hip and my AR besides me when I hear *BANG BANG BANG* against my front door. I grab my AR, peak out the front window and see the cops.
    Choose your own adventure here:
    A. Answer the door with my weapons in hand.
    B. Ask the cops what is the issue through the door and tell them I want to see a search warrant.
    C. Tell the cops to wait while I dearm myself. (and hope they don't bust the door down and blaze away-FYI, I have a dog so this doesn't bode well for her)

    Now I'm sure for all those anti-gunners in BeanTown, this wouldn't be a problem. At my house, it would be.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by muddywings; 04-22-2013 at 11:14.
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